Announcer: 0:00

From Little Mountain Sound in Vancouver, British Columbia this is Lab Notes. And now here's your host, Russ Hamilton.

Host Russ Hamilton: 0:07

Hello. Welcome to Lab Notes. I am your host, Russ Hamilton. We open today with good news Connection. Lab participants are reporting amazing success. I'm going over my notes from all the workshops that we're doing, and all the coaching programs, and all the conversations we're having. And it's just extraordinary that it's working. What's the best thing that can happen. Right. Aim high! I spoke to a participant who crushed a presentation to a government panel. Really important, best feedback she'd ever gotten. She got a bit dizzy from the success, but remembered to breathe. I spoke to another participant who noticed that under stress, he would micromanage his team. He got a bit dizzy too, but he took a conscious breath and decided to show up in a different way. He asked. He was curious. He invited. Now, that team is crushing it. They're leading the business. I spoke to another participant Who's practicing with the Six Box model and used it to discover some new confidence, some permission to be who they were. They used it to become more curious, less judgmental. They found their voice got promoted. I've been working with chief executives of various organizations, consciously practicing what they are asking others to practice making offers from a place of integrity and service, fulfilling their potential because they are choosing their culture instead of inheriting it. Investment meetings are going better. Companies are securing more funds. Families are managing themselves better and having more fun. It's working. The Connection Lab practice is growing because it's working. Oh yeah, here's our report. In the second quarter of this year, Connection Lab delivered 56 workshops in 13 weeks. We're currently graduating the first class of certified Connection Lab facilitators. We're opening up Connection Lab Espanol in Mexico, Columbia and Spain. The practice of Connection Lab methodology is working for us too. We're reclaiming the value of human relationships and deciding who and what we want to be and do together. We're allowed to fail when it happens and we're allowed to succeed when it happens. The communication revolution is upon us and it is fantastic. These success stories and so many others, I don't have time to tell. They're not accidents. They're not fate or mysterious. They are the result of conscious communication. It's a practice that is spreading in the best way. I want to celebrate these successes and your successes, no matter how incremental, no matter how small or large. Come on, high five, bring it in. Go team. Nice. Okay. Let's get to the show. My first guest today is a friend from a couple of gigs ago, a good traveler. She's a great person. She's the director of business development at Lee Hecht Harrison and the co-founder and CEO of NATEB Global a multinational executive. Please welcome Angelica Tellez. Hello, Angelica. How does all that sound?

Angelica Tellez: 3:14

I am? When you say it like that Russ, it makes my back, makes my vibe, it gives me the goose bumps. You see my arm.

Host Russ Hamilton: 3:23

I'm just observing. I'm just observing. I mean, I'm much more, but I'm also just observing your impact on the world. I sent you the one sheet, the Lab Notes one sheet. Is there anything on there that stands out for you as you practice? What are you trying to get better at?

Angelica Tellez: 3:39

Russ permission to be a human, I think of one of the things that I work a lot is on the making of mistakes type of thing. I want to get permission to fail many times and on not showing the professional side or not showing in certain ways a nd certain moments- that's what I want to get better at- the patience of our humanity, my vulnerability, that's something very, very present in my mind to work for and aim for betterness.

Host Russ Hamilton: 4:16

So I'll be honest. Permission to fail has been looming large for me. I got fired recently, as a coach, I was a coach for a program and I won't go into a lot of details, but I had a client who, after several sessions contacted the client lead and for this program I'm working on and requested a different coach.

Angelica Tellez: 4:42

Well, how did you learn through that Russ?

Host Russ Hamilton: 4:45

Thank you for that question, permission to fail. So I had to sit with that and it's interesting because under the stress, if we look at the Six Box, how do I show up under stress? I tried to rationalize it. I tried to marginalize it. All my thought process manipulated the information, the experience of getting fired into something digestible for me, into something that I could pass through quickly into something that I was allowed to experience. And, I stopped myself in mid-process, and I said, stop that Russ, this is not me choosing how I show up under the stress of getting fired. This is my stress, deciding how I'm going to process this. And I stopped. And, so, what I chose was to just live in that feeling of sadness and disappointment, that I was not able to meet this person where they were. And I'll say, this is the first time in 16 years I've ever been fired as a coach. And, it's been a fascinating experience, but I've reframed my relationship with the phrase permission to fail because permission is such a lovely word. Yeah. Permission. Congratulations. You got permission. It's so great. It disguises the reality or at least in this instance for me, which was permission to fail meant, the opportunity for me to have these feelings and to not push them away and to not rationalize them and to not synthesize them into something digestible just to live through it, however long it lasts. And, it was deeply uncomfortable. And, so, maybe that's something I wanted to get better at was just enduring uncomfortable feelings. And, so, I've really been revisiting it because do I practice what I ask others to practice? Because I use the phrase permission to fail a lot and how nice for somebody who never fails and yet, oh my goodness, I fail all over the place. And, what I do is rationalize it away and marginalize it away versus just living with the emotion and breathing into it and let it be because that's a competency, it's a competency to live in that emotion. And I'm tempted to say, sit with it. But increasingly I'm moving away from sitting with stuff because life is in motion, we're flowing through it. Right. So flowing through is critically important, all of a sudden. I'm really glad to hear. That's one of the things you're working on as I'm talking about my e xperiences, anything coming up for you?

Angelica Tellez: 7:30

First of all, I love that you share this story with me because I believe that many times it has happened to me that I want to push the emotion away. Right. I don't know if it's only cultural, if it's gender, or if i t's our society that has b uilt us to not have that permission to be human. It has become very unsustainable to be perfectly honest. And, when we go through failure, we don't take it as a way of learning. We take it as a way of failing, literally a way of not being enough or whatever, that was, not feeling competent for whatever competency we are supposed to be showing for, and, often for sure happens that like you, I have felt that in the the past, r ight. For example, now that I have my own my business, I'm learning. I'm not new to doing what I do, but I'm new to my own business. And, I had a client who, I was so excited to learn about their business, but I didn't know where the limit was. And, then when I tried to peddle back, it felt like a failure. It felt because my client was disappointed and they have certain expectations because I created a certain bar of expectation that then I wanted to change. And, it didn't feel that it was okay for the other party to change the rules in the middle of the game. For me it felt at the beginning, a failure, like why don't I know how to negotiate? Why don't I know where the limits are and the questions of gender comes. And the question of leadership comes and the question of competencies come. But, I love when you rephrase in a different way, beautiful that we fail because we learn next time because there will be a next time with the same experience and the same feeling. It might be okay to feel, you know what, okay, we learned this lesson again, what do we need to calibrate- how do we put the volume down or the volume up and how do we see it. And eventually, as you say, i t's a competency. Eventually, hopefully, we will react better because t hat s ituation's g oing t o happen. W e a re going to fail again. Hopefully we're going to fail again because t hat's the way to learn. And, so I love that you mentioned this experience because it, of course, happens to me. Right. We tend to beat up ourselves before we be more candid, when we need a little p ickup.

Host Russ Hamilton: 10:23

Yeah. I love that you brought up culture and gender because we live in a society that's quite predisposed around culture and gender. And, how do I talk to somebody who is so very different? How do I engage somebody who might not be my audience, right? How do I engage somebody who is predisposed in such a way that there's a narrow approach to definitions of success, to definitions of creativity and collaboration and opportunity. One of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show is because I think you're a tremendous spokesperson, being multinational, being a woman, being a leader of a business, and you can speak to this and I don't want to get you into trouble, or, I don't want you to corner you into a con controversial conversation, but let's be honest- and I can use this language, patriarchy, white supremacy- these restrictions, they're so emotional, right? And what if I have these emotions and I didn't fail, I'm not even really sure what my question is here, but what comes up for you as I talk about this.

Angelica Tellez: 11:35

What I was thinking while you were saying that Russ is I can tell you, I would love to hear and I always ask my friends, they have this pressure such as yourself and, you and I have had this conversation in the past as a leader- what's the difference between a way of acting and the way of behaving and in the way of responding when you are too emotional, right? Because In that relationship that I mentioned, the other person said, you know, I want you to be pragmatic and simple. And I was like, but I am a human. I'm not pragmatic and simple and less emotional- this was at some point a comment. So, for me, it is about being aware of being a leader in a global environment in a way with men that have different experiences than me and creating that credibility. And this is where I work on permission to fail because as a woman, in an environment where leaders mostly are men-- and I'm not trying to say they're not leaders who are women because there are incredible women leaders. And, I don't say women bosses, right? They have the titles that they call them bosses, but women they're leaders-- they're crowd movers. And, and even on that space of being real, honest, vulnerable, sensitive, and that's the beauty of women doing business, the sensitivity. I feel more than anything the importance of sensitivity, not a sensitive, like,'Ooh, you can cry or something', but that sensitivity, that emotionality of being empathetic or= expressing a reality of how it is without calling a strategy and a business all the time. Because at the end, again, I believe we're humans doing business with humans. And, I believe that I love, I love the balance that the men and women bring into the business because, yes, we bring sense of sensitivity that many times is needed, even in a business negotiation. Right. And, then in a business leadership, in a team management, that sensitivity to understand-- to have a way to say, this is the line, this is the margin. But, as well to say, you know, there is a margin for our humanity t oo. And, the permission to fail for my side and the permission to fail from yours. Right. And, move forward to growth because that's the space where disrupting when we fail, that's the space where we grow.

Host Russ Hamilton: 14:16

Well, and to your point, permission to fail is directly related to permission to succeed. Right? The amount of permission I give myself to get something wrong or to swing and miss is directly related to my willingness to try something new, to become something I've never been before to actually succeed as a level at a level I've never succeeded at before- to achieve a goal I've never achieved before. So, my permission to fail is directly related to my permission to succeed. And, I am working with an increasing number of human beings who really struggle with permission to succeed, right? They don't, they sabotage themselves unconsciously on the threshold of success. They'll find a reason not to take that final step.

Angelica Tellez: 15:00

And Russ, my question for that, I am thinking more than an answer into a question, how do we give ourselves and to each other the permission to succeed because if we are not giving ourselves and others the permission to fail, therefore, the permission to succeed, how do we manage. In relation to, for example, we started talking about Connection Lab and that requires connection to have that permission. How do we do it when people don't have the language, when people don't want to be in a connecting level and a vulnerable space, how do we it?

Host Russ Hamilton: 15:41

It's a great question. So I can't control them. I can't decide for them. What are the only thing I can control is the quality of my offer and the quality of my invitation. That's the only thing I can control. The question becomes what happens to my practice when somebody rejects me. Do I change my practice because somebody blew me off or somebody adores me, right? What if somebody goes, Russ, you're the, you know, Angie, you're the best of the best human being I've ever met, versus somebody standing next to them saying, Angie, you're the worst human being I've ever met. The truth is I can't, I can't have either of their experiences, just so they're both right. Because that's their experience of me. I can't decide for them. I can't control their experience of me. The only thing I can control is the quality of my offer and the quality of my invitation and the practices that are embedded in both. Does that make sense?

Angelica Tellez: 16:32

Absolutely.

Host Russ Hamilton: 16:33

Yeah, the answer is practice. The answer is practicing, noticing as much as I can raising to consciousness, my practice, the parts of my practice that are unconscious. Where my stress is deciding before I even have a choice to come to consciousness, that my stress has decided for me how I'm going to respond. Oh, there's something there for me to look at and breathe into and open my ribs and let the air flow through and be with this and notice, and then choose as much as I can and I might choose wrong. Okay. All that is is interesting. It's not right. It's not wrong. It's not good. It's not bad. It just is.

Angelica Tellez: 17:14

Yes. One of the words that I love when I talk to you, Russ, is when you say isn't that interesting. And I believe that many times Russ, we forget that curiosity. We come immediately to respond to judgment, to anything but curiosity, right? In the connection and intention of the connection with the people and the intention of the conversations with others and in the intention of our permission, just to create a different strategy for our approach. You just finished saying, it isn't the way I can control what others think of me. I can only control myself. And, the question it comes to be as well, when do I manage? And, when do I move my offer of communication for others to be comfortable. And, I believe I can come back to permission to fail, because that's not always the reason to change. There's nothing wrong with our offer as a person or as a leader or as a communicator.

Host Russ Hamilton: 18:23

And sometimes discomfort is what happens. We have to accept, if all we do is avoid discomfort, our life is going to be pretty narrow. So is that a competency? Something that I can get better at is just living and breathing through discomfort, failure, sadness, frustration, anxiety. Can I allow that emotion to be in me without poisoning other people around me? You know, I don't want to sit with it. I want it to flow through me, but is that a competency? And I think the answer is, yes, it is. And can now I be curious while having those emotions flow through me, can I still be curious? I mean, these are tall orders, but practice, practice, practice, practice. The more I practice, the better I get at these competencies until I get to a point where they start moving, flowing through me. Two more questions. Yes. Do you have any questions for me?

Angelica Tellez: 19:24

I think I've been doing it throughout.

Host Russ Hamilton: 19:26

Have, you've laid a few out there, so you have any more questions for me?

Angelica Tellez: 19:31

Yes, Russ. And now that I was talking about the way that you do Connection Lab with others, I will love to hear your advice as of how to continue creating connection with others in that matter. I know you mentioned something, but how, if I don't have the language, if I am new to another business person, how did you feel people can create a connection online?

Host Russ Hamilton: 20:00

So, I practice curiosity in real time. I'm curious, and I I'll say to my participants, what color are their eyes? What color are their eyebrows? What shapes do you see? What color of their glasses are they wearing glasses? Because if I ask these questions in silence and answer them in silence, I'm actively in curiosity versus living in judgment. Oh, I wish I'd worn something different. Oh, I wonder where they are. You know, I'm in my head when I'm living in judgment, I can't be curious and judgmental at the same time. It's one or the other. And so sometimes I have to remind myself, Russ, get curious, and I know what that means. And I get curious and I'm like, oh, look at how interesting this person is. Look at, you know, can I tell what color their eyes are? And if the answer is no, don't stop looking, keep practicing curiosity. We did it when we were children, we have the competency of curiosity. We have it now. So if I catch myself living in judgment of myself or others, not that that isn't useful sometimes, but if I catch myself swimming in a pool, especially if I think it's being productive, or if I'm pretending, fooling myself into being curious. Yeah, that's not curiosity. Curiosity is what color, what shape? What words, what experience, what can I ask them? Cause I'm curious about them. Where are you? What's going on for you? What would be useful? What do you need from me? What do you need more of? What do you need less of? Oh my God. Suddenly, I'm profoundly curious. And I don't want to be curious for my sake. I'm being curious to invite the audience, to inform my process. You know, I had one client who was, you know, took this exercise and, you know, harassed a waitress in a vacation spot and said, oh, how long have you worked here? And how many people work here? And do you go to school here? And how many patrons live at the hotel? And how many just stay here? And is it seasonal? He had 35 questions. This poor young woman just wanted to pour the water and get away. And he was practicing curiosity. Finally, his wife kicked him under the table and said, leave that poor girl alone. And he said, I'm practicing curiosity. So he got back and he called me right away. And he said, was I wrong? And my, my response to him is whose needs are you in service?

Angelica Tellez: 22:14

Of course.

Host Russ Hamilton: 22:15

Whose needs are you in service of? And it took a long time. And he said, mine, I was, I was, I was trying to get better at building the muscle of curiosity. Instead of looking at the look she was giving me just hoping that I would stop asking her questions because that's what her need was that she got to go away.

Angelica Tellez: 22:33

Did you think my second question probably will be, did you think this is a way of disruption for connection?

Host Russ Hamilton: 22:41

Totally. Yeah. I've been witness to it. People don't know that they assert their own needs ahead of the needs of the audience. They're not conscious of. They assume that the needs of the audience are the same as their needs. It's not. And in order for me to understand it, this is how, this is why I got fired. Even though I tried, I was not able to meet this person where they were. And, sometimes it can be elusive meeting somebody where they are because even they don't know where they are sometimes, but still that's. My J O B is to meet them where they are. It's not enough to point out them and say, move to the left. It couldn't be more obvious. Take one step left- to them. One step left might be off a cliff and they're going, there's no way you want me to kill myself and I'm going, no, just move left. How, what, how has that killing yourself? How do I stand next to them and see what they're seeing? That's part of my job.

Angelica Tellez: 23:31

Absolutely. And, Russ, what you just finished saying is very powerful because so many times we don't put ourselves in the shoes of the other one. The other person, the other client, the other, whoever is in front of us. And definitely what you just finished saying that I was of service of my needs in all the service of others. And, for me, what I hear, it was not only be at the service of others via the service of the needs of others. But with your curiosity, be as much as possible at service of others needs. Your's is the curiosity, hopefully to learn hopefully to connect, but as well to bring them into our relationship, not into a scary moment where I feel like I don't want to connect with you. Right. You're invading my space and reading that definitely Russ is something, another thing, to get better at, right? Reading, reading the other one.

Host Russ Hamilton: 24:35

Inviting them to inform me. Absolutely. Right. And then being available to be informed. And when my needs are already taken care of, how can I putting their needs ahead of mine, easy as pie, right.

Angelica Tellez: 24:48

Is that a way to bring back into relationships somebody that you broke relationship with?

Host Russ Hamilton: 24:56

Maybe, I don't know how available they are for that. They may not know how available they are for that, but if you are transparent about what you are trying to do, I'm trying to get better at rebuilding trust. I'm trying to get better at inviting people into relationships. So they feel seen and heard. I don't decide when they feel seen and heard, but it's my quality of invitation. I'm trying to improve my quality of offer. I'm trying to improve. And I'd like to rebuild the trust in this relationship because I think I contributed to breaking it. Wow. Yeah. And if I'm on the other end, I say the same thing. Wow. Huh. And I don't know what the answer is. Yep. Fair enough. But I'm going to keep asking, I'm going to keep offering until an answer becomes conscious and present.

Angelica Tellez: 25:36

One thing that, that as you were saying Russ that came to my mind as well, is we don't have a call to action. For example, earlier on you asked me'Angie to the audience, what is your call to action' in many times in connection, in relation and not in relationship, but in creating that connection to any kind of relationship. We forget that point.

Host Russ Hamilton: 26:00

Yeah. I know. Business really suffers. Call to action is module two of Connection Lab. Yes. And it's very difficult to make an effective demand on an audience that doesn't feel seen and doesn't feel heard. It's very difficult to make an effective demand on an audience that doesn't feel seen. If an audience does feel seen and heard, they have an appetite to be called to action. They have an appetite that you make a demand on them. Please pick me for your team. Pick me for your project. I don't feel seen and heard anywhere in the world. All I want to do is work with you. Let me prove to you that your attention of me, your quality of relationship is legitimate, is valuable, is earned. Let me prove to you how valuable I can be for your team. Make a demand is really a powerful switch because people, you know, when I talk about demand at the beginning of module two, they're like, oh, it's a, it's kind of a dirty word. You know? And I'm like, great. But the demands are made on audiences that don't feel seen and don't feel heard. So when an audience does feel seen and heard, making a demand on them builds trust. Imagine a business environment where we make demands on each other and we test each other. We help each other get better with better and better demands, better calls to action, right? Better action verbs. Instead of passive verbs, I worked with a lot of leaders who use passive verbs, or I want you to think of a solution. Yeah, I showed up thinking- that's weak. I want you to align yourselves in such a way where a solution becomes possible. Yeah.'She and I get along fine. We're aligned'' that's weak. Right? You need to call us to action. You call the play. But it's only going to be effective if I feel seen and heard because otherwise I'm going to walk away, shaking my head. And, even if you're the boss, I'm going to say, yes ma'am, but I'm going to shake my head, she doesn't know what she's talking about. I don't know how she got into that position. And that's my narrative. Going back to my cubicle, which is what the whole team is going to buzz about now is how unqualified the boss is.

Angelica Tellez: 27:55

How powerful is what you just finished saying Russ because many times as leaders, as humans,--forget about the leadership and always being in professional context, but we don't know how to do a proper call to action. Right. And, how disastrous is it when we don't do it? Because we humans have the intent to have expectations, which is not at the beginning a smart idea to be expecting something from somebody, especially in the way that I wanted, but even if I did and I don't have a proper call to action, the intention might be good but the call to action is bad- nothing moves and disrupting everything inside of the context of potentially a good intention.

Host Russ Hamilton: 28:42

So calls to action are leaving myself vulnerable for attack, right. Out of context. If I'm, if I call the play and people say, that's the wrong play, that's the wrong play. You're not qualified. So now we're back to permission to fail, right? If that's not the right play, what is the right play? Now I need practice inviting the audience to inform the process. What do you see that I don't see? Well, I have information about this client in this circumstance in this project. Oh, that is useful. Let's change the play. Now, I'm now going to, based on the new information, I'm going to call a new play and the whole team goes, wait a minute. I can influence the direction of this team. But again, it's based on whether or not we feel seen and heard, whether or not the leader is inviting the audience to inform the process. Whether or not there is an explicit active verb call to action right or wrong because you're modeling what calling the play looks like. And, then other people get to go,'oh, is that what it looks like to call the play?' Also, when it goes back to gender and culture, especially when I have a woman at quarterback, I like to say how comfortable I am with you at quarterback. And if I'm a star player on the team, I'm comfortable with you, I'm modeling for others what it looks like to say, I'm really comfortable with you calling the play. I'm really comfortable with you throwing the ball and being the quarterback- because I am because I feel like the plays are clear. The calls to action are clear. I feel seen and heard and I get to do my job the best I can because of the clarity and quality of your authority and your leadership. I'm really comfortable with you as the quarterback,

Angelica Tellez: 30:13

How powerful Russ, how powerful it is, the power of call to action. The whole connection is built through that. I believe for what I finished hearing you say, I mean, it has different dimension and different pieces and faces, but I kind of want see it like you on that, right-- a p owerful call to action, builds the credibility, builds the trust. And how is that built- through the failing part, right? To that permission to do i t wrong a few times o r forever, who knows? Right. But hopefully not, but having a strong call to action definitely comes from t hat failure- as you f inished saying, I hear you saying that t oo.

Host Russ Hamilton: 31:02

The question, are you going to listen to this podcast? You're going to listen to yourself and this interview.

Angelica Tellez: 31:07

Yes. I know. I felt, I felt hesitation. Yes. Russ. I will, I would love to hear what we chat about because we always have phenomenal conversations. Yes.

Host Russ Hamilton: 31:19

Good. Do you have any questions? Thoughts, needs or feelings for me?

Angelica Tellez: 31:23

Oh, I feel super grateful Russ for this time together as always beautiful learning opportunity for me. And, and thank you for sharing that energy and wisdom in time. So thank you Russ, for the opportunity to be with you.

Intro: 31:37

You're listening to Lab Notes, part of the Connection Lab Network for more information about our workshops and executive development programs, email us at info@connectionlaboratory.com or go to our website at www.connectionlaboratory.com.

Host Russ Hamilton: 31:51

The next guest has been patient waiting in the wings. Let's let's bring him out now. We are now talking to Aaron Mills. Aaron, it's so great to have you on the show. It's so great to chat with you. One of the most likable people in the world, I will say that out of the gate. Tell me where you are, where you're working and how do we know each other?

Aaron Mills: 32:12

Yeah. I'm Aaron Mills senior manager for cloud infrastructure at Ibotta. We're making the paved road for engineers to run fast on and we know each other from roughly, what is it, 2018 when you led the Leadership Journey cohort that I was in with some other folks who've been on the podcast. So go back a little bit, a couple of years.

Host Russ Hamilton: 32:35

Amazing. You have the little Lab Notes menu there. Do you have it open in front of you?

Aaron Mills: 32:42

I sure do.

Host Russ Hamilton: 32:43

Yup. What is on there? That's interesting for you today?

Aaron Mills: 32:48

Oh gosh. You know, having reflected on this a little bit, I think the things that kept coming to mind, all of it resonates with me, but the things that really hit home as number one is how do I show up under stress, right? The relationship with myself and seeing how I show up under stress having just started a new role. Obviously, an awful lot of stress being remote to a new team and not being able to meet them and go out to lunch and, and do the, get to know you stuff, but having to do that remote generates a ton of stress. And, seeing how I show up under that- noticing without judgment or correction has been something that I've really relied on this past month and a half.

Host Russ Hamilton: 33:28

How's that going? Are you, are you successful at noticing without judgment or correction, how you show up under stress?

Aaron Mills: 33:35

It's funny. I think that noticing without judgment is always, at least for me is very aspirational. Right. I find myself trying to judge, oh, you shouldn't have said that or this isn't perfect or whatever. It's aspirational, but I've noticed that, that even just sort of observing that, asking myself that question has been helpful to reduce that level of judgment. Just,'Hey, oh, I'm, I'm really stressing out right now and that's totally cool.' Right. That's totally fine. And that's helped kind of temper that judgment.

Host Russ Hamilton: 34:09

Amazing. How has the new company- it's only new to you, but how is it showing up under stress?

Aaron Mills: 34:16

Oh, wow. That's a great question. I think, I think the answer is, I think what's interesting is that I just immediately think back to the last year of everything that everybody's been going through and I feel like that's actually one thing that's been great is that everybody's been very observant of themselves, of each other and being like,'I'm really, you know, not okay today'.'I'm really having a bad day or I'm having a great day and that's okay.' And this other person's having a bad day. And I don't know, it makes me wonder if we've all sort of started to get a little bit better at that over time over, over this last year. But I think the new company for sure has been has been really great and also being observed and I've seen a lot of that practice and that's something that I've certainly tried to exhibit for my team as well is just say, you know,'oh gosh, I really I don't know about this, that, or the other thing. Help me out here.' Right. And just try to be transparent and be myself.

Host Russ Hamilton: 35:20

What do you remember about our program?

Aaron Mills: 35:22

Oh gosh, there was so much to remember. It's one of the things that I absolutely loved about leadership journey, it was just so dense with information- there was so much to take away from it that I still think about the lessons of the things that we talked about day to day or in each session. We did a Spine of a Story, and thinking about doing a magic trick in front of folks, trying to kind of tie tell a story that was compelling to folks and really, but also thinking through, as I was doing that, trying to connect with the audience, right. That it wasn't so much about- and this has been a touchstone for me, especially the last month and a half is the idea of returning to connection over content, the idea that it's about making sure t he audience feels seen and heard that you're connecting with them and the content follows from that. It's not about,'I've got a presentation that's perfect, I nail every single beat and you guys all better appreciate that because I put so much work into the content', right. I t's, it's not about that. Certainly you want to have the content ready to go and I wanted to have my magic trick ready to go b ecause i t's, for example, when we were doing that module, but really it was about using that as a mechanism to connect with the audience, to make sure that they, they felt involved in the story that I was telling.

Host Russ Hamilton: 36:43

What was your state of mind, as you were taking the stage, what was your fear meter? What was your anxiety meter, the version of you that was going through that process three years ago?

Aaron Mills: 36:54

The anxiety meter was pegged. I was redlining on anxiety because the here's a group of people that some of them I know and work with day-to-day, some of them I hadn't worked with because they were in other departments in the organization. And, I knew them from their work and respected the hell out of them, and I wanted to show up well. And, I think we all have that voice inside our heads that says it's gotta be perfect. You've got to show up perfect for these folks because they do such great work and you don't want to disappoint them or bring something that's not your best. And that leads to anxiety, especially for perfectionists, which I would count myself.

Host Russ Hamilton: 37:43

So, the reason I bring it up is because I'm curious how we relate to former versions of ourselves. Do you forgive yourself for being anxious? Are you connected to that version of yourself? How is your relationship to the version of you that was nervous, was anxious, was feeling perhaps inadequate. How do you relate to that version of you now that you've taken some steps since and been elevated and promoted and recognized-- because this is the journey, is it not, is where have I been? Where am I now? And where am I going?

Aaron Mills: 38:22

Such a fascinating question, Russ when you reflect back on the version of yourself that experienced all of those things- and I'd have to say I still have, it's not like anxiety has gone away or anything like that when doing presentations or whatever- but it's interesting because when I look back on that version of me, I still see that person in me today, but I'm much less judgmental about that person back then. And I'm like, wow, you did amazing. You did a great job. Why were you so hard on yourself? Right. So it's so interesting. It's just wanting to cut past me a little bit more slack.

Host Russ Hamilton: 39:07

So that too is my experience because I feel like my ability to relate to older versions of myself speaks directly to my ability to relate to people around me today that how do I relate to them? Where are they on their leadership journey? Are, are they beating the crap out of themselves? Are they anxious? Are, you know, how do I not judge a former version of myself? Because I look back on things that I did and choices that I made before I knew before I knew what I know now. And I'm like a Russ, oh, dude, what a disappointment, what a, oh man. Right. But I didn't know then what I know now. So, that's one of the ways I relate to people around me now is like, oh, I wonder I could. I kind of see myself in them a little bit and go, oh, I remember when our, when I was at that stage on that journey now that I'm, you know, so much past anybody, but I know more now than I did then. And I don't know as much now as I will tomorrow. So just reconciling all that, I just wonder how this process serves that, how the six box model and our experience, you know, connecting with people and doing the magic trick and managing my emotions and playing different instruments, you know, connecting to the audience, connecting to my content. What am I in service of? There's a lot of instruments here that I'm playing simultaneously. How does that resonate for you? What do you think of when I talk about that?

Aaron Mills: 40:35

It resonates really well. And I like that concept we're all getting better. We're all growing and we're all going to be the past version of ourselves momentarily. Right I like the idea of it also being about rooting for the people that you're connecting with. Right. That, especially when you notice how they're showing up under stress and seeing this movie before'You're going t o do great.' You're g oing t o get some learnings from this. There's so much there as you just said, so you root for them.

Host Russ Hamilton: 41:14

How are you with being loved by your audience?

Aaron Mills: 41:17

Not great. To be honest, I think that's one of those places where I think you know, personally I want to get better at. The idea that,- and it's funny, I was thinking about that as far as the connection over content piece of and I've got written down here linger longer was something that we kind of covered and the idea of it's so easy to get into that mode again when you return to the content, and then you want to make eye contact with everybody once and make sure that I make eye contact and then they feel seen and heard...Good. Okay, let's make sure the next person feels seen and heard. And all of a sudden it's like this sort of checklist in your head rather than returning to that connection. And, like you said, being, being loved by your audience.

Host Russ Hamilton: 41:58

So what's the competency of allowing my audience to love me, or what are the competencies? What is something I can get better at? So I can allow my audience to love me. Cause dude, your audience loves you, man.

Aaron Mills: 42:12

You know, one of the things I go back to is that curiosity piece, and this goes back into the what we talked about linger longer of being interested in the audience, being interested in their experience, not having their experience for them. We talked about it there and I love that message of everybody's responsible for their own experience, but just being curious about them and how things are going for them is I think one of the competencies that good to focus on when, when giving a presentation or when, just when talking with someone is just being curious.

Host Russ Hamilton: 42:47

I love that. And if I'm in front of somebody, who's loving me, right. Somebody in front of me, and they're just saying great things about me, they're expressing gratitude for me. They're calling me wonderful things. And staying curious about that and staying invitational, because that's a form of stress. For some reason, being loved is a form of stress for me. Like,'Oh, am I worthy of this?' it conflicts with my own narrative internally. Cause I struggle with myself and my own narrative can be pretty dark sometimes. And so being in the presence of somebody who goes,'Wow, you're awesome. I really appreciate what you did.' And, I have to learn not to respond with,'Well, you don't know me like I do.'You know that my narrative is somehow more important than the new information I'm getting from my audience.

Aaron Mills: 43:39

It's that perfectionism. Right. It's that idea of somebody else holds me up so high and I can't possibly meet that.

Host Russ Hamilton: 43:47

Yeah. Are you coaching?

Aaron Mills: 43:48

I'd like to think I am. Right now I think my coaching is mostly just the day to day, the one-on-ones um, uh, just meeting with folks and it's all about that curiosity, but then also more importantly authenticity of being, trying, trying to show up well and show up as an example of, Hey, you know, we're all, we're all trying to get better and I'm going to be as open as possible about what it is that I'm trying to get better at. I'm going to be as open as possible about what just observing how I show up under stress. And you've got permission to do that too. And think about how that might change the way that you go about your work.

Host Russ Hamilton: 44:39

What's the difference between coaching and management?

Aaron Mills: 44:42

You know, I think the biggest difference is maybe a little bit of the authority that comes in with management. I always think of management is pulling out the badge and saying, you have to do this, that, or the other thing it's, it's direction without development. Right? When I think of coaching, I think of succeeding through other people's success and getting, getting the amazing experience of getting to watch people level up. And that to me is that to me is the difference between coaching and management. Somebody may walk away and they may have succeeded in a goal, but that may only last as long as whatever objective it is that they're trying to achieve. Right. And they don't walk away from that sort of leveled up. And I think that in my mind is coaching is focusing on the success of whoever you're working with to be authentic to be curious, to grow their authenticity.

Host Russ Hamilton: 45:35

I feel like authenticity is a by-product of curiosity that in fact, I don't decide when my audience feels that I'm being authentic. I know when I'm being true to myself, but my audience's experience of me and whether they would feel that I'm being authentic is about curiosity because I'm not in judgment. I can't be curious and judgmental at the same time.

Aaron Mills: 45:57

That resonates. I think you're right. And I think that comes from that connection. Right. That just tell me about yourself. Tell me about, w tell me about if you're having a good day, a bad day. Tell me about what you're working on- all of those things,

Host Russ Hamilton: 46:12

Do you have a list of feedback, questions about how you're doing?

Aaron Mills: 46:16

Oh gosh. You know, it always depends cause I like to let the conversation flow. I think the biggest, the biggest one is what are the things that, what do you want me to know that I'm not asking about? Right. That's the biggest one that comes to my mind is basically- I always worry in any conversation that there's things that get left sort of unsaid for some reason. And again, because somebody doesn't feel like oh gosh, I'm going to be too, too brutal, t oo upfront. Or, you know, I want this person to like me or all of those things. And you know, the feedback I always try to work on with folks is you can't, you can't work on what you don't know about. Right. And so thinking through that lens of the more open and honest and more communicative we can be, I think the better we can get to the rest of the good stuff t oo.

Host Russ Hamilton: 47:10

Nice. So what are you working on now? What are you trying to get better at now?

Aaron Mills: 47:15

It's a great question because I think it can vary so much from day to day. And one of the, one of the things that I do is kind of write down every, every day, the things that I'm trying to focus on, right. Am I trying to be focused on curiosity today? Am I trying to focus on calling the play today? It could be, it could be one of a hundred different things I think, but, but right now, and it goes back to what we just talked about with authenticity and curiosity is that I'm just trying to keep curiosity as a touchstone. It's so cool to be new to an organization and to find out that there's this whole universe of things that I don't know, or a whole universe of things that I don't know that I don't know. And just not trying to do the capital L leadership part where it's like, well, I got it all cause I've seen it all. And you know, here's all the stuff we can do to make everything better, but really just trying to stay humble and stay curious about the folks on the team about my peers, about how the organization works and using that to make connections with folks and to really just learn more about them.

Host Russ Hamilton: 48:26

I love that= one of my mentors was telling me a story. Somebody asked him, are you okay these days? Are you happy? And, he frowned and said, no, I'm in a pandemic. I'm locked in my apartment. I'm dealing with unprecedented stress and economic uncertainty. And trying not to carry the suffering of the world on my shoulders. No, I wouldn't, I wouldn't identify as happy, but I don't aim to be happy. He said, my goal is not happiness. My goal is to stay in curiosity because my journey between happiness and sadness is fairly constant. I'm up, I'm down, I'm all over the place, you know, emotionally. But, the question I always ask myself is however I'm feeling. Am I still curious? And, so far, the answer is yes. And I find that satisfying. So that works for me. I have one more question that I'm going to ask you and if you have any questions for me, are you going to listen to this? Are you going to listen to your interview?

Aaron Mills: 49:22

Oh, that's a really good question. It's a really tough question. And I don't know. I will probably, I'll probably avoid it for a while and then you let curiosity get the better part of me and I'll probably give it a listen.

Host Russ Hamilton: 49:37

Oh, good. That makes me happy. Do you have any questions for me?

Aaron Mills: 49:42

I have one Russ. How, how do you remember to practice? How do you decide what you want to work on day to day? Are you writing things down? Are you reviewing things? What is it that where you wake up and say, this is what I really want to kind of focus on today.

Host Russ Hamilton: 49:56

I love that. I appreciate the question. What I work on is usually determined by the business and the audience. I'm in the business of my own development. My business is to share my practice with others in a workshop basis in executive workshops, in coaching. So, it's a bit repetitive when you hang around with me, there's really only like 12 things. And I think that's useful because I needed to be repetitive to practice it because I'm not that bright, you know, I need repetition. So my audience based on their needs will often inform my practice. I'll often need to be transparent about my practice and what I'm working on based on what they have asked to get better at what is the language? What is the process of getting better at feedback or listening or curiosity or call to action or storytelling. And so that my practice is co-created, that's, that's what I'll say is my practice is co-created. It's a bit repetitive, but I need it to be, and people who are tuning in to listen can relate to so many of the things that we talk about are, you know, based on the same language, the same questions, the same distinctions, and yet the answers are so, so much different all the time based on where I am and who I am and who I'm with. So even though the questions are repetitive and the distinctions sound the same, my answers constantly evolve and constantly change. And, I think that's where I learned the most is the patterns I see. And, that's where I learned about how I show up under stress and where I'm choosing, how to show up under stress versus where my stress is choosing for me. Where I'm identifying what I want to get better at and changing that list on the fly and how it's affecting my relationship to myself and my content and my audience. Does that make sense?

Aaron Mills: 51:56

It does. It absolutely does.

Host Russ Hamilton: 51:56

That's it? That's our conversation. I think you're so awesome for doing this and I really appreciate you stopping by and making time and engaging. And I'm so glad that we get to continue our conversation and I hope we get to do it more.

Aaron Mills: 52:10

Absolutely. Thank you so much for us. The pleasure has been all mine.

Host Russ Hamilton: 52:13

High five, Aaron Mills. Thank you so much more to come on Lab Notes and that's our show. That's it? That's the episode. Thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you so much for your practice and for your consideration with all of this. If you have any questions about any of all this, you can contact us at info@connectionlaboratory.com or visit our website www.connectionlaboratory.com. We love to hear from you- questions, thoughts, needs or feelings. Let us know. We promise we'll have another episode out for you soon- that is this episode of Lab Notes. T hank y ou.

Announcer: 52:46

Thank you for listening to Lab Notes, the Connection Lab podcast. For more information about our workshops and executive development programs, you can email us info@connectionlaboratory.com or visit our website www.connectionlaboratory.com